mark nottingham

To your point about mileage varying if you’re not an “average production worker”: earn USD45,000 in Australia and your marginal rate is 48.5%.

The problem with the Australian case is two-fold: Firstly, the 48.5% kicks in at only one-third above average wage (compared with three times in 1980). Secondly, income earners start paying tax at one-seventh average income (compared with one-third in 1980).

The point of my original comment was to agree with you that ones mileage does vary if you are not an “average production worker”.

I also agree that the cost of living is different and difficult to quantify. If you use purchasing power parity, the cost of food and rent seemed comparable in my experience between AU and US. What seemed cheaper (as a proportion of salary) in US was cars, books and electronics. The reverse of this can be seen when Singaporean students come to Australia to study and discover how much cheaper cars are in Australia than they are in Singapore (which has a huge car tax, I believe).

Bottom line is (and I think you’re saying the same thing) that a comparison can’t be made between one country and another without taking into account what your job is and how you spend your money.

We haven’t even touched on the variance within a country :-)

this discussion is of great interest to me. I live in the UK. I am a full time mother to 2 small children and my husband is an officer in the Royal Navy. We are currently researching moving to Australia where he would serve in the Australian Navy doing the same job. In the UK he earns UK£49000, but 30% goes in tax and SS, then there is the 17.5% sales tax, average house prices that are completely mad, the world’s highest car prices and petrol prices at £0.80 per litre. I know he would get paid much less in Australia, but we would not need a mortgage and have a nicer house, school fees would be 1/3 what they are in the UK. What is considered good pay in Australia?

Oatley,

You’d also be coming to a country with cleaner air, government assisted childcare, and warmer weather. However, it’s a one way trip. Once you sell up in UK, you’d not be able to afford moving back.

If you feel homesick, you’d be pleased to know the Australian PM barracks for the same US president, but you may have to cheer for the enemy in the Ashes.

Chui

I’ve been thinking of migrating to AU from the US, but first getting a working holiday visa. I wonder how hard it is to get one. The AU gov web site says they only give out so many a year. I am interested in moving from here because I beleive in the near future, the US is gonna be a very economically unstable place to live and Australia is truely a safe haven.I would be happy to pay whatever tax there is to pay for the comfort of knowing that it’s not gonna be utter economic chaos in the near future. The world is running out of oil supply and the US is very dependant on oil. The AU is much less. The term for it in the energy sector is “peak oil” and the longer the media remains silent about it, the worse it’s gonna get, till it crashes the economy. I was amazed when I found out that the population of the AU is only around 20 million. That is amazing to me! The continent is practically uninhabited in many places, and I bet with a whole lot less traffic!

Response to Bill:

I emigrated to AU from the US two years ago–more for ethical and social reasons than economic concerns. Although the current federal gov’t in Australia is tyring very hard to move toward a U.S. system of “winner takes all”, the country still has a vastly superior social safety net. And a consequently safer, more relaxed, and more stable society.

Although I’m a relatively high-income earner (by no means wealthy, though), my taxes are not a great deal higher than in the U.S. For that extra, I get to live where there’s a national health-care system for everyone, a minimum wage of $12.30 AU per hour ($9.35 US) versus the $5.15 in the U.S., and a MUCH smaller disparity between rich and poor.

Given the huge and growing gap between haves and have-nots in the U.S., I foresee the situation getting extremely ugly there over the next 10 to 20 years. As history shows, every time that gap gets too wide, major bloodshed eventually results.

After spending two decades voting, writing letters to senators and newspapers, and donating 4% of my gross income to organisations trying to make the U.S. a more equitable place, I decided to quit swimming against the tide and “pick up my marbles and go play somewhere else”.

It’s the best move I’ve ever made and I’d never go back.

Blogsters,

Yep, there are a lot of reasons to migrate to Australia. I did in the mid-eighties. Everything you say with regard to social safety nets, national health care, subsidation of living cost, higher minimum wage etc. is correct. On arrival there, I too was overwhelmed by the massive expanse of the country, clear skies, clean air. And bonus, there is only 20 million people.

Shortly after I arrived I noticed that there was an air of entitlement. The unions, the populace in general all, without exception, believed to the core of their collective bone marrow, that they were entitled to a fair a equitable distribution of wealth. They also felt free to demonstrate a symptom called, in their own language, “cutting down the tall poppy”

For example, if you worked hard, wanted a better life, were trained or educated, went to work, put in the effort, were self motivated, disciplined and enthusiastic about having more or earning more and you did it, you were looked upon as, unusual. If you actually did achieve success and accumulated the benefit and a few toys, you would be looked at suspiciously or your efforts would be minimized.

On top of that, the incentive to grow your income was penalized by the top marginal tax rate. As an employee, in sales for example, the harder you worked to earn a great income, the more tax you paid. A huge disincentive. Over and above that, whilst you were working 6 days a week trying to earn that income you were comforted by the fact that your tax dollar was supporting someones surf habit at one of the beaches. Someone has to pay for those “wonderful social safety nets”.

On one hand, I loved the idea that my children were breathing clean air and that poverty, homelessness were only something that they would see on TV. I loved the idea or concept that they were living in Utopia in terms of a lower crime rate, a minimal drug population, and a smattering of hand guns. On the other, I began to fear the absence of real world reality. And quite frankly, a development of a very real attitude of “entitlement”. “No worries mate” is a scary proposition when you have to grow children who will someday have to stand on their own two feet.

Australia, as utopia, is just about to reach it’s use by date. Globalization is going to eat it up. I say this because the ideal time or the optimum time to have moved to Australia was about 25 years ago. What will change everything for Australians is exactly the same that has changed everything for all of us global citizens, only worse. There will be a huge mind and attitude shift in Australia. They have been isolated for the most part from the global impact of downsizing and offshoring. Their workforce is just now starting to see what the effects of that will be. There real unemployment figure has been disquised by clever political spin.

Real wages are in decline, tax rebates and incentives will be there for the top percentage of earners and wealth. Interest rates will increase, cost of housing has reached stratospheric heights. The country was built on a large manufacturing base (gone or going) and a abundance or natural resources (going cheap. Major corporations have gobbled up the majors there and are downsizing and out sourcing.

Education and training has never been a priority in Australia. It used to be easy to just get a job,(if the waves were small) and now it’s not. Only a very small percentage of high school leavers continue on to higher education. There are more overseas students attending Australian universities than their own students, they just don’t publish it. Those overseas students will leave once they get an education drawn by a compelling need to get a good job, because there won’t be anything left there but a need to import goods, not design, development or manufacturing.

Would I still live there?? It’s a great country. It’s a wonderful place to live. But, if you are working, be prepared to adopt the neighborhood, take shots at your success and listen to a littany of complaints about how poorly the government takes care of you. Be prepared to pay and extrodinary amount for goods and services that most western countries take for granted. Be prepared to pay $40,000.00 for an automobile that cost $20,000.00 in the USA. Be prepared to buy a house for $450,000.00 that you could buy in any CBD in the USA for $150,000.00.

Remember, the Asians and mostly the Japanese discovered Australian property, golf courses and cattle farms, 25 years before the rest of the west, knew they existed. So be prepared to settle for scraps or pay the price.

A better plan is to stay where you are, make a boatload, educate your children, teach them the value of effort and a good days work, retire and then take your USA/UK LBS./YEN and settle there on a pristine coastline on either coast.

I am a 38 year old finance professional and my fiancee is a 32 year old investment banker. We make a very good combined salary and currently do not have any major ties (kids, mortgage, etc). We are considering moving to Chicago, USA where we both have jobs lined up - alternatively, she has an offer to join her banking firm in Sydney, Australia. I would be following her and try to find work in my field.

I’d be grateful for any insight on being an (American) expatriate in Australia for an extended period of time. Main questions that I have are:

1) How ‘isolated’ does one feel in Australia from the rest of the world? And how does this affect one’s mindset there.

2) What is the prevailing view on the economy going forward?

3) Is there a good balance on work-play and quality of life? My concern is that a banking/finance job in New York would be similarly intense with long hours in Syndey as well with infrequent opportunities to enjoy Australia.

If anyone knows of any good resources for better understanding what to consider in a move to AU, do let me know. And many thanks for the messages posted to date - very much appreciated!

Australia is a great place to raise a family and retire in, but it is not the place for young professionals or entrepreneurs to kickstart their career in. I’m sorry to make such a sweeping generalization, but most Aussie expats would agree with me on this one. I’m making AU$83,000/year in the US as a software engineer for the same skills that would land me AU$60,000/year in Australia (using payscale.com). I’ve lived in Australia for 15 years and the USA for 15 years as well, being a dual citizen of both (Dad is American, Mum is Australian), and the most frustrating aspect of life in Australia is the lack of decent jobs, as everyone says. To elaborate further: After graduating, American Uni students ask themselves “how much will I be making with this degree?” whereas graduates in Australian Unis ask themselves “can I get a job now?” Ironically, the first year of Uni in America is about as difficult as grade 11 in Australian high school, so go figure that one out!? This socioeconomic disparity almost encourages the brain drain that everybody complains about so often in Australia, but with only 20 million people, the lack of resources tends to make it inevitable.

Steve, being “isolated” from the rest of the world means perfecting English and acquiring more acute social skills, whereas other countries struggle with multilingualism and the corrupt politics that come with larger populations. I find there’s more honesty coupled with cynicism in Australia then there is in the US, but I feel that the tall poppy syndrome may be doing more harm than good by cutting down people’s confidence.

I’m 46 and am looking at possibility of moving to Adelaide from the UK. My salary here is around £48,000 and my salary in Adelaide would be much less - around $61,000. Given the difference in cost of living, what sort of lifestyle could I expect with this salary? I have a house worth around £330,000 and no mortgage (thankfully). Grateful for any advice anyone is able to give me as this is a difficult decision. Thanks.